Hey Kerry, I think you've done a great job standing up for yourself during this most recent debate. It reads to me like you've been getting even more than a taste of what Bob Hutton, myself and a few others have been on the receiving end of, since the seed of these threads first took root around May 6th (I went back and looked). Taking an unpopular stance (be it ultimately deemed right or wrong) is hard *if* one respects the opinions of the folks your having the discussion with. If one doesn't, I think that person would be a self-defeating fool to give a rat's ass WHAT the others think. The good news, of course, is that the proof will most certainly be in the pudding. Come back to these discussions in a couple of years and see how things have shaken out. I believe that the music business as we've known it in the past, and even as we know it now, will have totally collapsed (it's near the breaking point now, and I couldn't be happier) and we'll all be operating under a brand new set of rules. I'm hoping that all of you musicians will be able to be totally self-contained, from the first strum of the guitar (for example) to collecting payments directly from the consumer (there's that nasty "c" word again). I've seen it done before and I hope the entire process can be refined and replicated so that you can all, at the very least, augment your incomes substantially. If you can find a way to tour and make some money from that as well, perhaps you can even put together a life that's built primarily (or even completely!) around the music that you want to make and that we still very much want to hear. In my heart of hearts, I wish you all the very best. You don't need to sell your soul (or the rights to your songs) or get on your knees anymore, that's for sure. I don't wish to see any personal financial harm come to anyone in the music industry, but I do advocate it's total collapse (get it? I'm HOPING that you'll *all* somehow survive this maelstrom). History shows that business models collapse and newer, better and more workable ones take their places time and time again. We need to start over. I think that The Fallout we're seeing and most certainly feeling now will continue to wipe out more and more labels and most of the businesses associated with the old, failed music business model. I feel that there needs to be a completely new consumer/content-provider paradigm. I admit to being an idealist and quite possibly a complete fool (on the hill). But I'd gladly put my money where my mouth is and I plan to do just that. I'm going to assume that all artists *will* be trying (if they aren't already) to become totally self-contained so I'm going to try to set up a small business that will help them with at least one small part of that process. I'm in a position where I don't necessarily need to make a profit, all I need to do is break even, so maybe there will be more people in a similar position ready to jump in with their different areas of expertise. I'm guessing that at least thousands of other people are thinking the same thing I'm thinking right now. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a new coalition dedicated authentically to helping artists in this new environment, instead of just squeezing another dollar out of their already primarily lint-lined pockets? And to all of you on this list trying so hard (some succeeding, some just barely hanging on, sounds like) to make it as writers? I wish you all the best. I have SO much respect for what you do and I sure enjoy reading the end result. I sure wish I could do it. As overly verbose as I am, I think I'd at least have some fun with it. (Maybe I should start with one of those basic writing courses at the local community college. And this coming from a guy who somehow finagled his way to two undergrad degrees! It sure didn't make me a writer!) I understand that all of this is affecting your bottom line as well, often to a very substantial degree. I don't know enough about the business end of writing to make any even remotely helpful suggestions, but I sure wish you well. At least you get to comment on the collapse, right? (trying to find some good here). I hope for peace and prosperity with equal treatment for *everyone* concerned. I hope there's a way. jeff t.