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ivan@stellysee.de
| From | "Holmes Online" <bholmes_fm@msn.com> |
| Subject | Re: pak |
| Date | Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:41:10 -0500 |
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Matty..> so, this woman who actually MAKES insanely great pop starts posting
to a list for insanenly great pop, and all anyone can do is bicker with her
about her not exactly startling observation that men like to ogle female
artists and sometimes make them uncomfortable in doing so? why not accept
the fact that she's a woman who's actually experienced this, and take her
just a little bit seriously? and maybe start talking about music with her?
The whole thing started because she took Gabe's post seriously, even though
she's been a listmember long enough to know better and even after it was
explained to her that he was just joking. She didn't post about music and
then get pounced on. Someone made a comment about geeky glasses and it all
went to hell from there...like no one has ever menntioned other artists
appearances before.
+++++
Jason..>Besides, for several years I'm pretty sure I (or at least those in
my age bracket, natch) were the targets of vitriol from some quarters of
this list for being too young, and part of a generation that simply didn't
appreciate good music. I didn't much care about this then, nor do I now, but
the street cuts two ways.
I remember when you initially brought that up and I didn't understand it
then and I don't understand it now. Congratulations on your youth. I respect
people's musical opinions here based on merit not age. Not saying you're not
oppressed, but usually when I've seen any reference to your age, you brought
it up. I have no idea how old most of the list members are.
+++++
Shawn..> I don't know that I should have to point this out, but women are
still a minority in rock, and, regardless of skill level, they still have a
harder time being taken seriously. If you're "too" attractive, that's where
all the focus ends up. And if you're not attractive (god forbid), you can
rest assured that will be commented on too.
And I don't know that anyone disagrees with this or doesn't empathise. But
this whle thing started with a Lisa Loeb reference (lets face it, she has a
"look" you could use as a touchstone to describe what someone else looks
like) and was used as a launching pad for other frustrations. I'm sorry that
women don't get taken on their merits as often as they do on their looks,
but it's not my policy nor that or most people here, so I resent the
accusation. Do I think some female artists are hot? Shit yeah - just like
every hetero woman on thi sboard thinks some guy artists are hot. But no,
you don't have silly chain posts about who is yummier, and neither do the
guys. The last conversation I remember was about Liz Phair, but it was more
because of the combination of the photos on her album and the swing in her
musical direction. If Audities were around at the time, we'd have had the
same conversation about Peter Frampton cicra IM IN YOU.
+++++
Mike B..> A lot of these posts were simple expressions of disagreement.
However, a lot of these folks took it personally -- 'hey, I don't judge
female artists by their looks'.
I guess you could say I took it personally, because that's what Paula was
complaining about. Us and our "boy's club" and all. I responded to her
initial post with what I thought was a polite and supportive message which
apparently totally flew by the wayside.
+++++
Alan>..In my world, you state your opinion, someone may disagree with it,
you talk it out, you wind up agreeing with each other or you don't. In other
words, you agree to disagree, but you agree to get along. It doesn't always
work out like that, of course, but that's the goal.
Rest assured we're on the same planet, buddy. The nature of a list alters
the normalcy of the pace of a conversation, let alone the absence of sound
and visuals. Life's too short to forget that and let these matters spiral
out of control.
cheers
b
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