smoe.org mailing lists
ivan@stellysee.de
| From | "josh chasin" <jchasin@nyc.rr.com> |
| Subject | Re: All I'm sayin' |
| Date | Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:49:34 -0500 |
[Part 1 text/plain iso-8859-1 (6.5 kilobytes)]
(View Text in a separate window)
I never said you were a meanie. I said you don't "listen." And I think you
pretty much make that case for me here better than I ever could. You're
just talking right past me.
There are many cogent things I could say to underscore the very simple point
I have been consistently making, and indeed to refute some of the points
you're making (for example, I don't recall imputing a sinister motive to
Wal-mart's opening up outside of and between towns; you brought that in your
reading. I was just stating a fact, which you bear out.) . But it would
just be a waste of my time, and your time, and most certainly everyone else
on this list's time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart Mason" <flamingo@theworld.com>
To: <audities@smoe.org>; <audities@smoe.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: All I'm sayin'
> No, I just had forgotten that all downtowns everywhere were doing just
> swell, goshdarn it, until 1962, when the first Wal-Mart opened in
Arkansas,
> an event so cataclysmic that just about every downtown area -- even in
> towns that wouldn't get a Wal-Mart until a quarter-century later -- went
to
> shit overnight.
>
> In response to Josh's Stewart's Just A Big Meanyhead post below, I can
only
> offer the possibility that Josh is just upset that when confronted by
> counterarguments by myself, Ron, Bobby, Jason and others -- not one of
whom
> is claiming that Wal-Mart is the greatest thing since sliced bread, even
> the one of us on their payroll -- his initial statement that "Often
> Wal-Mart will open up outside of town on a highway or intersection between
> two towns-- to draw retail traffic from each-- and destroy the downtowns
of
> both in the process" doesn't really hold water. It does not take into
> account that the vast majority of American downtowns were already dying by
> 1962, when the very first Wal-Mart opened in Arkansas, and were well and
> truly shot to shit LONG before Wal-Mart started its major national push in
> the mid-'80s. It does not take into account the fact that Wal-Mart builds
> its stores on the outskirts of town and in unincorporated areas between
> towns (see footnote below) for a variety of factors that are far more
> important to their business model than some cockamamie Doctor Evil glee at
> putting the screws to the mom-and-pops, such as: 1. land is much cheaper
> there; 2. that's closer to where people actually live; 3. zoning laws are
> much more relaxed there; 4. there's enough room to build an enormo-box
> store and the acres of parking without having to buy two dozen small
> parcels of land in the process. It's a simplistic, reductive argument
that
> transfers people's anger towards those companies who are exploiting the
> real problem instead of directing their anger where it really belongs: at
> city charters and zoning laws that encourage urban sprawl instead of the
> infill and mixed-use development that it has been proven time and again is
> absolutely necessary to revitalize downtowns, and at people who would
> rather have a McMansion on a 1/3 acre lot 30 miles from downtown so that
> they have room for their big honkin' SUVs rather than living in a smaller
> house in an urban area where they might be able to (you freaks!) WALK to a
> supermarket or a restaurant and (goddamn commies!) TAKE PUBLIC TRANSIT to
> their jobs.
>
> I know that Wal-Mart in particular and urban sprawl in general is a
> hot-button topic for me -- I spent the entire six years I lived in
> Albuquerque as part of an active lobbying team that I'm proud to say has
> done one whole hell of a lot to revitalize Albuquerque's downtown in the
> face of various kinds of opposition -- and I apologize for any offense
I've
> caused on the topic. But I firmly believe that limiting your outrage just
> to the corporations misses the most important part of the problem. It's
> not just Mega-lo-mart's fault. It's the fault of the city planners and
the
> city councils, and ultimately, as Ron so eloquently said, it's the fault
of
> the people who don't even recognize that there are possibilities other
than
> living in Pinewood Estates, shopping at Wal-Mart, eating at McDonalds and
> driving 24.6 miles to work every morning. If that's what people genuinely
> choose to do and they have their reasons, great, more power to 'em.
> Personally, I grew up in suburbia, I shop at Wal-Mart sometimes, I have
> consumed *way* more than my fair share of Big Macs over the last 34 years,
> and I understand that you have to go to where the job is. But the
> fundamental underlying problem is that too many people don't even think
> that they might have other options out there. If you're going to be angry
> at anyone, they would be my first suggestion.
>
> They're the same people who only listen to the music that the major labels
> and Clear Channel have chosen to push this quarter, because they don't
> bother to spin the radio dial or venture past the front CD displays at
Best
> Buy. There, I even made this vaguely on-topic.
>
> (Footnote: As Jason pointed out, Wal-Mart hasn't penetrated Massachusetts
> much (pun most definitely intended), and that's largely because this state
> HAS no unincorporated land! There is not a single acre of Massachusetts
> that's not part of a city or town, which makes it impossible for Wal-Mart
> to work in its accustomed manner. There's only one Wal-Mart Supercenter
in
> all of Massachusetts, in Ware, in the south central part of the state.
> Even it's about 2/3rds the size of the average Supercenter. And I admit
> that I shop there when I happen to be in that part of the state. Because
> that Wal-Mart Supercenter is the only place within 400 miles of
> Massachusetts where I can buy Ranch Style Beans, Pioneer country gravy mix
> and White Lily flour, and by god, I'm a southern boy and I need the food
of
> my people. If they carried frozen green chile and Mrs. Baird's cherry
> pies, hell, they could erect a statue of Sam Walton in the middle of
> friggin' Boston Common as far as I'm concerned.)
>
> S
>
> PS: 8-P (orright, Greg?)
>
>
> At 10:07 PM 12/3/2003 -0800, Greg Cagle wrote:
> >Looks like Stewart forgot the emoticons again 8^).
> >
> >- Greg
> >
> >Josh Chasin wrote:
> >
> >> Of course, the possibility that I understand you perfectly and that it
is
> >> you who aren't hearing me, is too absurd to even be on the table. So
I'll
> >> just shut stupidly up now. Thank you for the free lesson though. You
do
> >> seem to dispense them freely, and I felt like I wouldn't be one of the
cool
> >> kids till I got one.
>
>
>
For assistance, please contact
the smoe.org administrators.