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ivan@stellysee.de
| From | "David Bash" <bashpop@earthlink.net> |
| Subject | Re: Another dogpile |
| Date | Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:39:43 -0800 |
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--- In audities@yahoogroups.com, Shawn Huckaby <tikiking@a...> wrote:
> The thing that troubles me though, is that whenever someone steps up and
> challenges the popularity or quality of any of the commonly heralded
> Audities artists, they are frequently set upon by numerous individuals,
> and challenged as to their standing/credentials and why they should even
> be allowed to broach the subject! Then when tempers inevitably flair on
> both sides of the argument only the outsider is called to task for being
> argumentative, rude, childish, etc.
In all the years I've been a member of Audities, I can only think of very
few examples of someone being unnecessarily lambasted or chastisted for
having a contrary point of view. Sure, there has been some pointed,
vehement disagreements, but with very few exceptions they've been
respectful. If someone is truly being argumentative or rude they are indeed
called to task whether or not they are an outsider. Of course, it's mostly
"outsiders" who are percieved this way because they haven't yet zeroed in on
the etiquette or protocols of a particular list. I'm sure there are some
lists on which being considerate or diplomatic is perceived as being wimpy
or weak. Look at Jim Rome's sarcastic view of "niiicccceee radio" for
example. In Jim Rome's "jungle", being conciliatory is tantamount to having
no balls. I'm sure there are several internet lists who subscribe to this
ethic. Here we try to be considerate of each other.
> Look at this last situation as a
> perfect example. EB was attacked on all sides (often personally) about
> his lapses in courtesy and even about his ability to truly discern
> "good" music.
I don't recall any posts where Eb was vilified for his taste in music, but
if he was, my guess is that it was only as a response by folks who felt that
not only their abilities to discern good music were attacked, but their
character and worthiness were called into question. It's my feeling that
Audities people were not making value judgments about the tastes and picks
of people on Pazz & Jop or Circle of Friends, but merely pointing out that
each list has its own hues...different strokes for different folks.
There are all kinds of people making up the Audities list, ranging from
those who are extremely eloquent (far more than I) to those who are somewhat
scattered, but as long as they are nice, decent folks who don't present
themselves as haughty, smirking, dogmatic, or condescending, they will not
be vilified for anything.
> Most appallingly, it was even insinuated that if he
> wasn't willing to renounce his past sins and take up the path of
> enlightenment he should leave---and the sooner the better!
Nobody did this. People were just questioning why someone who wasn't
gaining any musical insights or additions to his collection by being a
member of Audities would want to stay here. Perhaps they put it in slightly
harsher terms, but again, some feelings were hurt. Eb might feel that we
should all grow up and stop being so sensitive; fair enough, but I'm sure Eb
has his sensitivities, too.
> Amazingly,
> the list regulars who were exhibiting the same behavior that EB was
> accused of were never taken to task for their roles in the altercation
> (I could name names, but the posts are there for everyone to see, and I
> think you know who you are).
I may be wrong, but in the six plus years I've been an Audities member there
was never anyone who has, when not directly provoked, exhibited the same
behavior as Eb. However, if we feel attacked, we may be compelled to
respond in kind as a means of defense. If a violent person punches you in
the face and you hit him back, should you be perceived as inherently
violent?
> This is just the type of behavior that keeps us lurkers doing just that.
> I will continue to subscribe for the occasional recommendation that
> lives up to the hype, but I doubt I'll post much....it's just not worth
> the drama for something that ultimately is a matter of personal taste.
> It does sadden me though that this level of high-school "love it or
> leave it" bullshit has to get in the way of a legitimate discussion of
> music.
We don't have a "love it or leave it" attitude about music. Sure, we're all
proud to be part of the same team, but this list is not exclusionary in any
way. If an "outsider" comes in and simply posts about their love for The
Long Winters, Tall Dwarfs, Cornelius, or any other band outside of the
normal Audities realm, they would never be called to task about anything.
If we didn't feel the same way about those person's choices we either
wouldn't respond or would say we disagree, but without making value
judgments. We are totally capable of having legitimate discussions of
music...any music. There may be a few people who have occasionally stepped
outside of this code of behavior, but it's uncommon. I'm sorry if these
relatively few outbursts have prevented some people from posting. I would
request that anyone who feels like posting should go ahead and post. You
won't be sorry.
> -The last barrage of Top 5 marital aids/college mascots lists was
> insufferable--even with the ability to delete individual posts.
Ok, it got a bit out of hand, but hey, it was a lot of fun for a few days!
This is a music list, first and foremost, and even without Michael's warning
we'd have stopped our silliness in short order.
If I'm coming off as being some sort of spokesperson for the list, it's not
my intention. I'm merely communicating my observations. Please feel free
to disagree with me. I'm sure some of you will. :-)
--
Pop Rules!!!!!
Take Care,
David
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